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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2021.02.26 · wg-async-foundations · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/index.html">wg-async-foundations</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html">meeting 2021.02.26</a></h3>

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<a name="227966328"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966328" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966328">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1172">@WG-async-foundations</span>, time for our meeting</p>



<a name="227966387"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966387" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966387">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>hey!</p>



<a name="227966418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966418">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I somehow had something scheduled over this -- maybe I don't have the invite on my calendar?</p>



<a name="227966447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966447">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>However, I wanted to talk a bit about async vision doc stuff :)</p>



<a name="227966565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966565">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sounds good. Before that, announcements – I know of one big thing</p>



<a name="227966574"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966574" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966574">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'll try to monitor in any case</p>



<a name="227966591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966591">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>and dump some notes later</p>



<a name="227966714"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966714" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966714">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:02)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Sounds good. Before that, announcements – I know of one big thing</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and that is the <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3014"><code>must_not_suspend</code> lint RFC</a> completing FCP</p>



<a name="227966888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966888">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is there anything else?</p>



<a name="227966940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227966940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227966940">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not from me; I haven't had much time for async work this week</p>



<a name="227967135"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967135" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967135">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>If not I think there's nothing else to discuss.. now would be a good time to talk about async vision <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>, but not sure whether/how you want to do that now :)</p>



<a name="227967258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967258">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>As a reminder, <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/27">this PR</a> (<a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision.html">rendered</a>) is the current state of Niko's drafting of the vision</p>



<a name="227967516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967516">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>The intent is to land something and start iterating from there</p>



<a name="227967517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967517">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Only thing I have is this is on the way to being deployed! <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/82165">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/82165</a></p>



<a name="227967711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967711">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Wondering if people have any high-level thoughts, concerns around the vision draft</p>



<a name="227967743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967743">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm probably going to spend the time taking a bit of a closer look in any case :)</p>



<a name="227967751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967751">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I will as well :)</p>



<a name="227967846"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967846" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967846">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Regarding the personas in the async vision doc, I have a few in mind that I'm trying to flesh out (in all cases it is "person developing a"):</p>
<ul>
<li>High-performance distributed networked services</li>
<li>Core dependency crate</li>
<li>Runtime</li>
<li>CLI tool</li>
<li>Client-side application</li>
<li>Long-lived daemon</li>
<li>Existing library/application using established libraries</li>
</ul>



<a name="227967882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967882">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116883">tmandry</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26/near/227967135">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>If not I think there's nothing else to discuss.. now would be a good time to talk about async vision <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span>, but not sure whether/how you want to do that now :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>sadly i'm in this call-- but I wanted to say that</p>



<a name="227967907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967907">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>(a) I'd love to hear more about characters or anything else</p>



<a name="227967938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227967938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227967938">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>(b) I want to iterate on the tenets and plan to put time into that next week, hopefully have a fresh draft on monday</p>



<a name="227968138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968138">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>(c) I'd lke to shoot for getting a first draft by end of march, so if you have thoughts on things you would like to contribute or care about, i'd love to hear those thought--maybe will work on a blog post about process there</p>



<a name="227968142"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968142" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968142">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>fin</p>



<a name="227968348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968348">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Putting some time on my calendar to read through it this weekend</p>



<a name="227968376"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968376" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968376">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>the yield-safe lint RFC would make a nice addition to some of the stories actually</p>



<a name="227968412"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968412" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968412">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, and I want to merge the PR by EOD</p>



<a name="227968429"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968429">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I maybe had an edit or two left to do, I forget</p>



<a name="227968454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968454">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but the hope was to move to follow-up PRs to refine the content</p>



<a name="227968473"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968473" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968473">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> said they would make one</p>



<a name="227968502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968502">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, you mean the vision</p>



<a name="227968511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968511">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>it feels more like <em>part of</em> a story</p>



<a name="227968548"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968548" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968548">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Probably something I'd be interested in doing would be to draft a coherent story around concurrency APIs. Not sure what that would best fall under, but we can figure that out offline</p>



<a name="227968563"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968563" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968563">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh new meeting time! I completely forgot. Give me a minute to catch up!</p>



<a name="227968852"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968852" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968852">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119031">@Esteban Küber</span> I'm not sure if those are all distinct <em>characters</em> or just stories with some of the characters we have</p>



<a name="227968867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968867">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I did want to add: Webassembly</p>



<a name="227968881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968881">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe a wasm-developer</p>



<a name="227968888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968888">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Fair</p>



<a name="227968928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968928">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="face palm" class="emoji emoji-1f926" role="img" title="face palm">:face_palm:</span> forgot about WASM</p>



<a name="227968935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227968935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227968935">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but again maybe that's just stories with existing folks)</p>



<a name="227969074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969074">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm. Regardless of breakdown between characters/stories I'm seeing a whole lot of use cases we need to consider :)</p>



<a name="227969174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969174">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to think of a way to simply / make it more manageable</p>



<a name="227969193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969193">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>It might be worth highlighting which aspects of each use case make it unique</p>



<a name="227969260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969260">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>my assumption is that we'll find they're not that unique</p>



<a name="227969285"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969285" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969285">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>for e.g. a CLI it might not be very different than a client-side application, save for one or two things</p>



<a name="227969316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969316">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's what I'm trying to flesh out</p>



<a name="227969390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969390">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>and yes, the interesting part there is what the IO requirements <em>might</em> be and that they care about cross-platform</p>



<a name="227969485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969485">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>stdin/stdout for a CLI tool is interesting in a way that isn't for a GUI app</p>



<a name="227969508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969508">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>as well as the distinction between a daemon and a server or a cli tool are small</p>



<a name="227969525"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969525" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969525">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>but having it as its own thing gives us a vocabulary for them :)</p>



<a name="227969621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969621">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, fair</p>



<a name="227969682"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969682" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969682">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>so then what we might end up with is a set of requirements, which various use cases have a subset of</p>



<a name="227969910"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227969910" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227969910">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>The good thing is that we can focus on the joint set of cases that affect multiple use cases, while the disjoint set can... continue as it is</p>



<a name="227970000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970000">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>The analogy I keep going back to is: "if you need mmap, you're using mmap, not <code>File</code> and you clearly already don't care about portability"</p>



<a name="227970035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970035">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah exactly</p>



<a name="227970059"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970059" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970059">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to say that writing out a "two-way mapping" might even be useful, if we get into a really tricky design issue we might have to exploit the fact that e.g. you never care about requirements X and Y at the same time</p>



<a name="227970100"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970100" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970100">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Same for a low-level fuchsia specific daemon, or a high-throughput linux only dns proxy</p>



<a name="227970466"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970466" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970466">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>How long do we have this meeting for? If it is until half-past, then we have a minute and a half :)</p>



<a name="227970476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970476">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>The analogy I keep going back to is: "if you need mmap, you're using mmap, not <code>File</code> and you clearly already don't care about portability"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Although even this isn't necessarily rock solid.. many OSes have a concept of memory mapped file, so maybe you just want something which abstracts over that concept..</p>



<a name="227970500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970500">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, it's only 30 minutes</p>



<a name="227970536"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970536" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970536">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's usually the triage meeting, though we didn't have anything to triage today :)</p>



<a name="227970727"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970727" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970727">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I will say, and I think this is important, the use of emoji in the new vision draft is great :p</p>



<a name="227970899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970899">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, we are officially out of time</p>



<a name="227970921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.26/near/227970921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E26.html#227970921">(Feb 26 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks all for coming, and see you next week! <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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